Episode Overview
Thompson Thrift, a fast-growing real estate business with a footprint across 23 US states, has been on an intentional journey to embed culture at the heart of their growth since 2020. They have earned numerous Top Workplace awards by focusing on purpose, recognition, and cohesion across their dispersed workforce. Key initiatives include:
- Internal Communications: Overhauling their weekly newsletter to inform, celebrate, and inspire team members.
- Empowering Leaders: Treating every site manager as the CEO of their own site, responsible for building and maintaining culture.
- Mission-Driven Hiring: Prioritising culture and collaboration when hiring new team members to ensure they are a good fit from day one.
- Innovative Benefits: Launching a Family Impact benefits program to provide enhanced healthcare and financial resources, and offering flexibility to team members.
- Authentic Leadership: Senior leaders lead by example, are not afraid to be “doers,” and show genuine care for employees.
The company’s success is demonstrated through tangible metrics, including high team member referral rates and improved retention, proving that a strong culture is a key driver of organisational performance.
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Full Transcript
Hello and welcome back. So today, we have some of the team from Thomson Thrift. Now, Thomson Thrift have more Top Workplace awards than I could possibly count on my fingers and toes. And that was just in 2024. So do you mind if we start off with just a little bit about each of you? So who wants to go first?
Kristin Tolliver: I’ll go first. So my name’s Kristin Tolliver. I’m the Senior Vice President of the Human Resources Team here at Thompson Thrift, and I collaborate and work quite a bit with Lily, and I’ll let her introduce who she is and what she does. So I oversee our team, which includes training, compensation, benefits, recruiting, and team member relations.
Luke Fisher: Perfect. And Lily?
Lily Tikijian: I am Lily Tikijian. I am the Senior Director of Communications and Engagement for Thompson Thrift. I joined the Thompson Thrift team in January of ’21 and have really enjoyed my time and kind of built my role and my team around the communication and engagement world. So it’s been a fun four and a half years so far and work really closely with Kristin and her HR team.
Thompson Thrift is a fully nationally recognized real estate company. We were founded in 1986 in Terre Haute, Indiana, and have grown significantly in our past 39 years. We are now in 23 states, have five corporate offices around the country, and we have a lot going on in the multifamily and construction world.
Luke Fisher: Very cool. So let’s start then, Kristin, one for you. When did Thompson Thrift first start focusing and thinking about becoming a top workplace, and where was the initial motivation, desire, and vision to get to the level that you have today?
Kristin Tolliver: Great question. So I think the motivation was always there to be a Top Workplace with Paul and John. We always say the words on our website, we truly live those out in form. I think the focus really started after the pandemic. That was such a time where people were trying to navigate life in different ways. Post-pandemic, there was an intention. How do we continue to bring our team members together as a growing organisation? Around 2020, we were probably 350, 400 team members, and today we’re at 720. I looked this morning, so and that includes our interns, which we have 36 this summer. So there was a large jump from 2020 to 2022 when we started that intentional focus. How do we touch all of this growth and all of these team members? And that really started, where we had a focus on our enhanced benefits, which I’ll get to here in a moment. But I think as the growth started, it was intentional. How do we keep that Indiana feel where we started in Terre Haute, Indiana and expand outward as a national company?
Luke Fisher: Okay, cool. And then just talk to me a little bit, because 2020 is not that long ago. Yeah. Some of the others that we’ve had on the podcast are founder-led, purpose-driven organisations, right from the outset. Yeah. This was their way. But you had a really key transition. So maybe just talk to us a little bit about some of the steps that you took to, you know, “we are going to become a top workplace.” Where do you start? How do you start to improve the experience?
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah, so I think that started truly with utilising the Energage platform. We had had some team member surveys that were done in-house that we had built out within our organisational health and HR teams. And we said, “how do we get recognised and what does that look like?” “How do we compare ourselves to our peers and what are those categories?” So again, it came with the growth of the organisation from when I started seven years ago at 250 to 400 to now 700. What’s that benchmark and how do we stack up against it? With that growth was the intentionality to look at those platforms and say, “how do we stack up against our peers in the real estate, multifamily, construction, corporate service, all of those realms.”
Luke Fisher: Okay. Great. Lily, could you share any specific initiatives, programs, or examples that you’ve implemented on this journey?
Lily Tikijian: Yes, absolutely. So at the end of 2021, so right around that timeframe we’re discussing, my team did a big overhaul of what we call our TT Weekly Update, which is our Thompson Thrift weekly newsletter that comes out every Wednesday. And really, we did an overhaul just to better improve it. “How can we inform, socialise, inspire, celebrate our team members through this mode of communication that goes out to everyone in the organisation?” That was a big piece of, I believe that’s built on that culture that we’re trying to keep our team members informed and celebrate them in a manner that’s weekly. So, it’s not a monthly newsletter. I mean, it’s happening every single week where people are getting recognised and people know what’s going on throughout the organisation.
Luke Fisher: Cool. And did you see that link through to things like clued-in leaders, clued-in employees starting to show up in your results and like how do you tweak or change that if you are or you’re not seeing it in your results?
Lily Tikijian: Yeah, I don’t know, Kristin, we could probably talk about this for a while, but I think we saw it almost immediately. I get the opportunity once in a while to go travel on site and people talk about the weekly newsletter and what they’ve seen in it, which is really cool and beneficial. And then, you see people stopping each other in the hallways saying, “congratulations, I saw that you were recognised for what we call Living the Core.” So there’s like a little recognition program within the TT weekly as well. I just think it’s brought us all together as an organisation and allows our corporate office to know what’s going on onsite on our job sites, in our communities, and understand what we’re doing here. They get to see that as well. I think it’s been really beneficial all around.
Luke Fisher: Cool. My learning from speaking to you both last time is that words really matter. In our prep call, Kristin walked over, got a photo frame of the word cloud, and that word cloud was the articulation from your people of what makes a great day at work. One, I love that you have it in your office. That’s super cool, because it’s a lovely reminder of what impact you’re having on people’s lives. But two, it’s hard to keep that alive, because in the employee experience, it ebbs and flows, you have good days and bad days. So I’d love to know, once you’ve got that information from your people, like how do you bring those words to life week after week after week?
Lily Tikijian: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I actually stole it from Kristin’s office.
Kristin Tolliver: Stole it.
Luke Fisher: I let her borrow it.
Kristin Tolliver: Yes. We are not, we’re not robbing things in this organisation. We’re working together.
Lily Tikijian: Yes. I borrowed it from Kristin. So we built out this word cloud. It was actually during our 2023 annual meeting where we brought in a lot of our team members from across the country and we all got to get together and collaborate. And what kind of started as a fun exercise turned into almost a mirror that painted a clear picture of what energises and fulfills our team members at Thompson Thrift. So, this is really just like a quick snapshot, but it’s also kind of a compass. So earlier, we were discussing that TT Weekly Update, that newsletter, where we intentionally spotlight stories and wins that align with our values. And you know, the word accomplishment came up a couple times throughout this. So that’s something, you know, we highlight in the TT weekly. Crushing a goal, or we have a Social Hub event downstairs. Fun and friends is in here as well. So everything kind of ties back together to this word cloud. Collaboration, productivity, progress, success, communication. They’re all part of a bigger piece of what we do at Thompson Thrift.
Luke Fisher: Very cool. And you’ve talked quite a lot about accomplishment. I know that one of your awards that you won was the Appreciation award, and it feels like celebrating progress and your people is really, really key. I’d love to know beyond the TT weekly, like what role does your team play in reinforcing recognition and keeping the culture this aspirational state visible in the organisation?
Lily Tikijian: Yeah. I think culture is everyone’s job. And I think that’s something that all of our team members care about deeply here at Thomson Thrift. It lives in how we show up, support one another, make decisions, but I think my team’s role specifically is kind of keeping that culture visible and intentional. We talked about the TT weekly, where, you know, different team members submit other team members who have gone above and beyond their job and really help support them in something or accomplish something great. Kristin’s team does a great job of tracking our milestone anniversaries. Every year team members are celebrated for how long they’ve been with Thompson Thrift, which is a really fun thing we do. We have Social Hub events, gatherings. Just the other day there was a bridal shower going on in our social hub and then there was an intern birthday right next to it. So just celebrating those little key moments. I think everyone intentionally stops what they’re doing, kind of makes time for that, because they see it can build our culture.
Luke Fisher: Yeah, completely. And Kristin, maybe one for you is how do you think about the line manager? And the reason I ask is, Dan, who’s the president of Energage that runs the Top Workplaces program was on recently, and we talked about how much of the variance in the engagement result comes down to the line manager and the day-to-day interactions. And very often we see that the culture and engagement problem gets pointed at the HR team. And in fact, the research points to the fact that it’s the manager that actually accounts for so much of the variance. So I’d love to know what you’re doing to equip and support line managers to really carry the culture into their day-to-day roles, responsibilities, and what expectations or empowerment you give to help them do a Top Workplace grade job.
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah, so that starts with day one and onboarding. The majority of our team members are all in person here in the Indianapolis office. So they get to see and feel that culture and we line up someone to have lunch with them from their team. The executive team gets their quick bio picture, where they’re going to be, what their role is. So if you see them walking around, there’s the intentional effort to connect with them. They meet various people on that first day, but it’s truly about who we are as a company and our culture with focus on the TT weekly, our TT Serve philanthropic events, our culture, and how they are going to shape and build that. We call our community managers the CEO of their own sites. And so, part of being that CEO is they’re responsible, yes, for the buildings and the financials, but for building that culture for that team. So they’re the first hire that we put on any site. And so that’s a big initiative. And then from there, our team, my team specifically, will go into markets to get to know the team members that are in construction and community management. Our benefit specialist this summer has spent two weeks travelling throughout Colorado and Denver and doing service events with them and grand openings and getting to know them. So we have a lot of different touch points. We have our grand openings at the communities, which features both construction and community management. As many senior leaders from our home offices here in Indiana try to get to those as well as our service days. So we really try to push that culture out and join them in the day-to-day. We arm them from day one of what Thompson Thrift is and what they should be empowering as that culture on their sites.
Luke Fisher: Got it. So from day one, it is literally in this organisation, this is what we expect of you. That makes a huge, a huge difference. And then in life, I know that there’s a lot of support that you are giving through the team. Do you know how managers, have they taken their own unique spin on some of the core concepts that you’ve got, and do they bring it to life in a unique way in some of those sites that you have? How does it really play out in the day-to-day?
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah, I’ve seen it and it somewhat ties back to Lily’s world. Just through their social media posts. I mean, our teams are out there and they do fun, creative things, but that’s who we are as an organisation, right? Like we have our TT clips to highlight our construction roles and we’re about to roll out drone footage, tie that back to an interaction with a client and make it a fun sales bit. So I think even that, you know, one of the big things that we talk about with the onsite community management teams is their AURA scores, which is the J Turner platform. So not only are we focused on our team member experience, but we ask them to really take care of those that choose to rent with us. And that’s showcased and displayed in our AURA scores with J Turner because we have high reputation marks. So that same care and concern that’s involved with the day-to-day here at Thompson Thrift, it’s really pushed out to those that choose to live at our communities too.
Luke Fisher: What happens if you don’t get buy-in or more, yeah. Maybe the question is probably more, how do you make sure you get buy-in, yeah, and that your employees really do want to work with you rather than against you? Yeah, and you know, where does it go wrong or where’s it been hard along the way? Because often people don’t get that luxury where teams are like, “I’m all in from day one.”
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah. So first and foremost, we try to hire for culture, and then talent and we can train the rest. But it’s pretty evident and Paul had mentioned this on a previous podcast, one of our CEOs, that it’s that splinter effect if they don’t fit in from a cultural standpoint or a team member standpoint, it becomes pretty evident pretty quickly. And either they self-elect to leave the organisation or, you know, performance goes hand in hand with that. So we can tell pretty quickly and luckily we don’t have too many situations that result in that, because I think our recruiting team does a really nice job of hiring first for that culture component. They go through at least three rounds of interviews. If you’re not a fit, you can certainly tell, “this is probably not the organisation for you.”
Luke Fisher: Not to give the game away to anyone that might listen to this, that is thinking of applying for a role with you. But if they are that obvious, like what are those markers? Like, how do you know that they’re not going to fit in?
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah, I think someone who truly is individual contributors, every company needs them, but someone who’s just laser focused on “me, myself, and I,” is probably not going to be a good fit here. Everything we do is a building block to reach our goals. So from my team, hiring someone to Lily, communicating who those hires are to them working on a project, to the project being built, to bringing tenants and residents into those communities. So if someone isn’t willing to collaborate and be inclusive with our team members, that’s number one for sure. And I think just having open, open mind, open heart. That’s really who we are. We come from a compassionate place, but we are always talking about levelling up our talent. We are a company where we read a lot. We have a lot of book clubs. Being a national company, different teams do different book clubs. So someone who’s not eager to continue learning and growing, is probably not going to be a fit for us here.
Luke Fisher: Great. This segues me quite nicely too. If I’m a grumpy CFO, not that they’re all grumpy, but a CFO listening to this, I’m like, “okay.” “It sounds amazing.” “You’ve won all of these awards.” “It sounds like a really nice place to work.” “You’ve nailed your hiring, but like, why does it really matter?” “How’s it impacting organizational profit?” Have you got any tangible impact that you’ve seen, since you sat out on this journey, kind of post COVID or since 2020? In areas like retention, productivity, customer outcomes, or any other key metrics? Do you track it all the way through?
Kristin Tolliver: We do. Interesting. You say “a grumpy CFO.” So I’m going to use our CFO Dan Sink as an example. He’s our CFO, slash hopefully not.
Luke Fisher: A grumpy one.
Kristin Tolliver: No, he’s amazing. So much so to your point, we saw some engagement statistics over the groups that he sees go up over the last year and when we had breakout sessions. One of the big things they mentioned specifically was Dan and his open door policy. People love it. So when he does his CFO quarterly update calls, he always starts with some good corny jokes. We saw that move the needle. Our accounting retention started to come down. There was more engagement between the construction accounting team and the development accounting team. So that’s a great example of just how that person is living the core and fits in to our culture and how they were able to move the needle. I think another good testament is I was looking, and last year we had 27% of our hires for construction came from referrals, and then for community management, it was over 30%. So we have people that love working here so much, they’re like, “hire my friend.” “Hire my friend.” Which, what a great position to be in where you’re getting all these referrals that are of like-minded individuals that enjoy working for Thompson Thrift and the culture that we’ve provided.
Luke Fisher: And your cost per hire is coming right down as well. Right? Yeah. Because the greater, the proportion of people that are coming from friends, the better. Very, very cool. Any other metrics that’s worth sharing? Anything else that you feel particularly proud of in terms of that we often find HR teams or people focused on culture. The bridge to business impact is quite hard, and it’s very clear in your organisation that this isn’t the fluffy stuff. You know that it’s really driving performance and collaboration. Is there anything else that you would share that would help those people that might be struggling to build the case? To show an example of what this can really do for you?
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah, I think one of the best examples that I’m going to highlight, our commercial property management team, it’s a smaller group. At our annual meeting, we highlighted them. That team I think was over. Lily, was it like 15, 18 years?
Lily Tikijian: 15.
Kristin Tolliver: 15 years. 15 of average tenure. And so you have a group of seven or less individuals that choose to come to work every day, show up with a positive attitude. That’s the type of team we’re looking for. Our growth has been so significant over the last few years, it kind of skews what our average tenure is. But we have several team members that have celebrated 20 and 25 year milestones that have been part of that growth of the organisation. So I think when you see those as the mentors and the leaders, and even some of them being an individual contributor roles, you know, like Thompson Thrift is going to embrace people at all levels of the organisation, and see that, if they want to grow and thrive, this could be a place for you.
Luke Fisher: And that knowledge is so vital, right? In terms of the outcomes that they can generate, for the end customer too. Very cool. So last year was a massive year for awards. I think Top Workplace status. Almost in every number of award. I think we joked just before that you could probably occupy 30 minutes of time with just the number of awards that you’ve got. But you used a term that fascinates me, which is about levelling up, because it seems like you’re definitely not resting on your laurels. So how do you continue to level up now? How do you continue to innovate in your employee experience? Like how does this get better than 24 awards last year? Lily, maybe one for you.
Lily Tikijian: I mentioned it earlier that we’re in the 39th year of being an organisation and we’re coming up on our 40th. I think it’s important not to just look ahead, but I think it’s important to remember who we are and stay within those boundaries of being true to living the core, which we consider our mission, our core values, and our core competencies. And continue focusing on those. You know, we’re really excited to celebrate our 40th year. I think just the leadership team we have in place, and the young talent we have entering our organisation, is going to shape who we are for the next 40 years and beyond.
Luke Fisher: Very cool. I think you’ve earned the right to be able to give some advice now on people that might be aspiring to become a Top Workplace. What are the key ingredients? What’s the secret sauce that gets you to the levels that you have been able to drive the organisation to?
Lily Tikijian: I think the key is being mission and purpose-driven and circling everything back to that. All of our business decisions, all of our meetings, team members. Can we circle that back to our mission, our values, and our competencies in everything that we do? I think that’s truly the key ingredient to success.
Kristin Tolliver: I would just say our leadership, even up to the executive team, we’re doers as well as the strategic thought partners. So none of us are afraid to roll up the sleeves and do what’s needed. Pulling reports, dissecting data. I think that has really been strong to who Thompson Thrift is as we have these leaders who, it’s almost like we’re learning how to stop being the doers, but we care so much about the business and the end product that whatever we can do to help move things along, people are going to put their hands in the pot and say, “what can I do to help?”
Luke Fisher: Yeah, it’s very cool. I think you used, in our preparation call, a term around the leadership team talking about levelling up. And how that’s formed a mindset for the organisation and it’s shaping a lot of your programs. I’d be really keen to understand like, what are some of those programs, how are the leaders having an impact on the types of experiences you’re creating for people? I think there was one in wellness, one in flexibility. There’s a few lots actually that you’ve got. So any examples? Welcome.
Kristin Tolliver: Yeah. So our Family Impact benefits program was launched in 2022. So we just hit our three-year anniversary, and this actually came from one of our CEOs. They had a minor medical accident and were able to get immediate healthcare. And so made him think, “well, gosh, I wish all of our team members had access to immediate healthcare at that concierge level.” So it started with that principle where a group started touring local clinics and we ended up partnering with Marathon, who’s a national partner and has locations throughout all the states we operate in. So that was a big piece, you know, “how can we provide additional supplemental healthcare at no cost to our team members?” And then it was, “how do we keep compounding upon that?” And that then came the flexibility. Post-pandemic, we are very much an in-person office and enjoy the synergy and the collaboration being a developer and a constructor. We said, you know, “we’re going to do it a little bit differently.” “We’re going to give people some flexibility, but we want them to be present for life moments.” “Kids, baseball games, choir concerts, all of that.” Then we said, “how do we help our team members in life?” “You know, let’s give them some financial resources, behavioural health, you know, we know that was a trending topic, so every year we’re looking at this program and saying, what can we add to level up our benefits to be best in class and, what does that look like?” And we judge ourselves against others, but most importantly, against ourselves. And sometimes that’s hard, because we always can get a little bit more hard on ourselves when you’re not taking in the outside. So, it’s always really amazing to look back on the things we’ve done and feel those moments of accomplishment, particularly with this Family Impact program. Just another quick one is our partnership with Indiana University here in Indiana. We have two programs that we do, annually or bi-annually, just depending on what’s going on in the organisation. But we have our High Impact Program for our leaders. So anyone who’s a director above and they’re working together in a group setting to provide a case study that’s presented to them. And we’ve seen many of those case studies put into action into the business. But those partnerships that you form with those team members, those cohorts are something that you still, you lean on to this day? I still talk to people from my group five years ago that maybe I wouldn’t, being how large we’ve grown. And then we have our Frontline Leaders, which are our frontline leader managers, and we fly them in from across the country to “how do they become stronger and better leaders and embrace that mission of impacting their team members in the communities that we build in?” So those are just two very specific in terms of how we continue to level up our team members and give them the opportunities, to choose Thompson Thrift as a top employer and a place they want to work.
Luke Fisher: Yeah. Very, very cool. It sounds like there’s a question that got asked by a past guest, which we do this thing every time, and it feels like it’s really relevant to what you’ve just been explaining in terms of this, people are all immersed in the culture. So the question is, “what’s one moment when you realised that culture wasn’t just something that you manage, that you two have responsibility for shaping, but something that you really co-create with your people?” “Was there an inflection point in which you went, ‘wow, we shouldn’t be doing this on our own?'”
Lily Tikijian: I think for me, coming into the organisation in the beginning of 2021 and us being in that pandemic mindset. That was one of the first years we were not able to host our annual meeting in person. And I remember sitting in the Indianapolis Social Hub. I was two months fresh into Thompson Thrift and our two CEOs are presenting, they’re like casting out to the rest of our team members in the field and who aren’t in Indianapolis. And I just remember sitting there and you could feel the momentum from them. And I remember that’s kind of like, if you will, my buy-in moment to Thompson Thrift of, “we have our two wonderful CEOs, who are servant leaders and extremely passionate about Thompson Thrift and each of the team members that they’re talking to right now, on this virtual call,” like, “I want to be able to share that with those team members who are not here every day and don’t get to feel that.” So for me, that was really kind of that moment where I was like, “what can we do?” And that kind of spun out into a lot of the other initiatives we’ve talked about today.
Luke Fisher: Very cool.
Kristin Tolliver: For me, during the pandemic, John and Paul, our CEOs, they picked up the phone. Called every team member, they divided the list. “You’re going to call these people.” “I’m going to call these people.” And I know I personally, got two calls. But when you went down to our frontline team members who were still on construction sites and on the community management offices, they still had to service those residents and to hear those impact stories from a manager or a leasing consultant or a service tech, “the owner called me to ask how I was doing and how my family was doing and how things were going.” And you know, to me that was just the moment of, they truly care about this culture and all these people, and that was a moment for me that said, “this is a special place to work and that anyone who’s a leader needs to be that type of leader and follow suit.”
Luke Fisher: I think it’s the, just the genuine and authentic care that tends to just trump everything, right? Because if you take it on balance that these people are people, you tend to make the right call, right? Interesting. Very, very good. Lightning round. I’ll go to each of you and then we’ll make it through the list of five, if that’s okay. First one is a big one, which is, “what’s your proudest moment in the journey that you’ve been on at Thomson Thrift?” Lily, let’s go to you first.
Lily Tikijian: I think mine is watching my team grow and become an integral part of Thompson Thrift and the culture and people buying into the importance of communications, engagement events. I’m fortunate enough to have three team members who are now full-time on my team that were past interns. So watching them grow and love what they do and love this organisation. I think that’s been my proudest moment so far.
Luke Fisher: Very cool. Kristin. Proudest moment.
Kristin Tolliver: I similar, I think seeing team members who started as interns go to full-time team members and get promoted over time. One stands out. He was 18, I think when he started with us, and he has become a good confidant and, colleague and peer. But to see his growth and trajectory with the organisation is just mind-blowing. And to see that young talent today entering the organisation, I’m just excited about them being the future leaders of this company.
Luke Fisher: Cool. Next one’s the flip side, and it’s the stuff that people talk about less. It’s the hard moments when it really does feel like the world’s against you and it helps you to learn a lot. Lily, what was that hardest moment for you and what does it teach you?
Lily Tikijian: I think the hardest moment I’ve had with Thompson Thrift to date is we, two years ago, unexpectedly lost our COO and Senior Vice President of construction, and that truly was when I realised kind of the importance of effective communication and navigating loss of a of a friend, a colleague, and who I considered to be a founding member of this organisation and really doing all of our parts to support our team members, our leadership team, our CEOs, and all of that through that time. Definitely taught me a lot and definitely taught, I saw the resilience of Thompson Thrift in that moment.
Kristin Tolliver: I would agree with Lily on that same moment. For me, he had been such a pillar. He led our HR team 30 years ago, so there were things that fundamentally he just had his hands in that he and I worked very closely together that “how do I navigate what he would do as my thought partner?” It created some really strong relationships with those on that exec team. So it was hard, but I think we grew as individuals and as a company through that, and it just taught us all so many lessons through that process that I can’t even list the amount of lessons learned from that.
Luke Fisher: Okay, lovely. And then the next one, I think I expect you to be pros on, because you’ve got a book club and you named some great books already. But is there a book author or thinker that shaped how you approach culture and people leadership today? Lily, let’s go to you again. First please.
Lily Tikijian: Oh, I’m, I don’t think I’m going to give you exactly what you want. When I was thinking about this question, there are so many great books out there. I mean, we’ve mentioned Brene Brown. I know we had talked about kind of Five Dysfunctions of a Team at one point, which is a great read, I learned a lot from, but I truly think I’ve learned so much from our team members and the leadership team we have in place now. I’ve learned the most by listening and really listening what we need as an organisation, what our leadership team values, what we struggle with. I think the best leadership lessons haven’t come from a book, but just even from hallway conversations and open and honest feedback, I feel like that’s where I’ve learned the most from to date.
Luke Fisher: Yeah. Nice. Kristin, for you.
Kristin Tolliver: So I’m a book nerd. I love to read. And I always go back to one. I actually told someone when I interviewed here seven years ago that it was one of my favourite books, and it’s so basic, but fundamental to teamwork and leadership, and it’s called Fish. Can’t remember the author, but it’s about the Seattle Fish Market and how so many people as part of that team literally touch it. I just really, it’s a quick, easy read, but it’s such a great book on “how do you work together,” which at the end of the day, for any business to thrive, you have, if it’s even two people, two people plus that are working towards a common goal. So that’s one of my favourites.
Luke Fisher: Interesting. Cool. I’m kind of double asking you this question, but it’s one piece of advice that you’d give to an aspiring Top Workplace.
Lily Tikijian: I think mine would be that you can’t, you can’t fake culture. I know we’re talking a lot about metrics and all these things behind it, but it’s really just, it’s a feeling you feel every day and it’s built with everyone who’s here. So I would just say to invest in it, try to measure it and lead it daily.
Luke Fisher: I often talk about, “brands get exposed when culture is a veneer.” Like when you can tap on the outside and it looks like it’s wood, but then you go in and have a look inside and it’s definitely not what they promised that it would be.
Kristin Tolliver: Along that same vein, I think showing up every day as your authentic self and walking that walk and talking that talk. I think we have a lot of humble leaders as well, that when we make mistakes, I’m the first to raise my hand. I’ll say, “I messed this up,” or “I misspoke.” And so I think being that type of leader and team member is really what’s going to get someone to be a top workplace, because you’re owning the mistakes, you’re learning, and you’re growing from them to become that top workplace, and it’s only through failure that you find growth.
Luke Fisher: Great. And this last question I’m going to get to for the price of one, because we normally take a question to the next guest, but I’m going to ask you both for one, which is, you have no idea who’s going to be on next. I would love to get from each of you just one question that you would like to ask a future guest on the podcast, to answer when it comes to driving culture change. So Lily, I’ll come to you first again please.
Lily Tikijian: I think one of the questions I’m always going to ask anyone I interact with who’s in a similar role to myself or Kristin, is “how do you ensure onsite or team members who aren’t directly in the corporate office setting feel included in kind of the cultural heartbeat of your organisation?”
Luke Fisher: Yeah. Nice. Okay, good. Kristin?
Kristin Tolliver: My question would be, “what’s their unique selling proposition for their culture?” “What’s the thing that sets them apart from other organisations along the same industry that they work in?”
Luke Fisher: Very cool. Well, thank you both. This has been so much fun. It’s been really nice getting to know you both and it’s like you have some of the coolest things going on, so well done. If you haven’t taken your moment to reflect and feel good about the stuff that you’ve achieved, you really should do. So thank you for coming on and, I hope you enjoy the microphones.
Kristin Tolliver: Thank you.
Lily Tikijian: Thank you. We appreciate it.
Luke Fisher: If you found today’s conversation valuable, we’d love if you follow us, rate us, or review the show. It really helps others find us. And if you’re feeling inspired, share this episode with someone who’s passionate about building a better workplace. We’ll be back soon with more stories from people, leaders, putting culture into action. See you again next time.
